Ahead of the Curve... for Now
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No one doubts the fact that Ted Gregory, Kevin Ward, Don Jackson, Ray Tellier and Dianne Murphy are smart people dedicated to Columbia athletics.
But I have to agree with many of you who have commented on the fact that it would help to also get some newer and different blood into this selection process for our new head football coach.
But I do want to give credit where credit is due, and right now Murphy gets a lot of credit for having the guts to make this very necessary decision and doing it quickly.
With Dartmouth and Yale still dithering about with their head coaching decisions, (I can't believe BOTH Buddy Teevens and Tom Williams will survive the month... I think at least one is going to go), we're suddenly ahead of the game for once.
Our only semi-parallel competition is Fordham, who fired Head Coach Tom Masella right after yesterday's game. Masella started the same year as our Norries Wilson, but was let go despite sporting a better winning percentage and a league championship.
But getting back to the matter at hand, I can only hope that this blog will somehow serve as an outside monitor and aide in the search process... even though I know that's a bit of a long shot.
Robert Kraft, are you out there?
And before we only think about what qualities we want in a coach, let's remember that there's a team of players that has to be evaluated as well.
Yesterday we said goodbye to 24 seniors. That means about 86 players are still around.
They include a super talented QB, two dynamite pass rushers and a lot of players with varsity experience.
But the issues the team needs help with the most are:
-Preparedness
Several players and even a coach or two told me this season that the team just wasn't prepared from week to week. I attribute that to tunning out some of the coordinators who had lost their hold on the team, but there may be other reasons.
-Fundamentals
Some fundamental rules of football just got violated way too often the last two seasons. It may be rough to focus on that in the limited practice time allowed in the Ivies, but it has to be addressed.
-Depth
The talent is still better than most longtime fans are used to, but there was still not enough depth at WR, RB and some of the offensive line positions. These backups need to be more ready to play.
-Winning in crunch time
In tight situations, the Lions just lose way too often. Losing 50% or even 60% of your closer than a TD games is one thing, but Columbia lost more like 80% of them in the Wilson era.
Carry on...
posted by Jake @ 7:20:00 AM
44 comments
44 Comments:
Will the team lose players through transfers? Many want the Ivy league education, but at the core they are competitive too. Can they go to other Ivy League schools? How would this affect their eligibility? What will this do to recruiting? Despite the fact the team had a losing record this season the staff seemed to recruit well. If the students don't feel the new coach can understand the pressure placed upon them with the limited practice time and substantial study time needed, players may opt not to play.
Jake, I see Don Bosco Prep's Head Coach, Greg Toal, as a strong possibility for Fordham, but not for Columbia. The Rams may take a chance on a great high school coach like Toal, but not the Lions. Toal's hiring may make sense at Fordham because his hiring would give Fordham more visibility in the top high schools around the country. Fordham has committed to going big-time and desperately needs to bring in super talent immediately or they will be punished by their opponents. Toal will not have to be concerned about meeting high standards at Fordham. Obviously, that is not going to be the case at Columbia where the new coach will need to recruit to the Ivy League's academice standards which are the most stringent in the country. Furthermore, while Fordham, being a Patriot League outcast can do whatever it wants, Columbia will adhere to the Ivy League academic academic index in recruiting. That index puts Columbia at a severe disadvantage in recruiting against its Ivy League opponents. To be successful in recruiting at Columbia a coach has to be able to navigate the chopping index waters. That takes a really smart guy with a strong Ivy League background who knows exactly which applicants can make the cut. Then the coach has to have a outstanding win-loss record as a head coach at either another Ivy League school or a non-scholarship Patriot League School. And finally, he has to be charismatic enough to convince the best student-athletes to come to Columbia over the other Ivy League Schools. At this time, I only see two persons who fit the bill: Phil Estes of Brown and Tom Gilmore of Holy Cross. Assuming Estes has no interest in leaving Brown, then Gilmore has to be our #1 target and because of his own strong academic record, he would probably be the preffered choice anyway.
The New Haven Register had a couple of paragraphs at the end of its account of the Harvard-Yale game. Columnist Jim Fuller reported that, "One source said that Stanford officials have confirmed Williams' assertion that he was approved to pursue the scholarship, but multiple other sources have said that Williams' job could be in serious jeopardy."
My take is that it sounds like Williams never took a formal step toward applying for the Rhodes. He talked to a faculty member or two who encouraged him to apply but that may have been it. On the other hand, he could still make a weak case that he was a "candidate." You know, like all American college students are theoretically candidates.
If my guess -- and of course that's all it is -- is correct, it will leave Yale with a lot of wiggle room. Nobody will argue against the evident fact that Williams stretched the truth but, if Yale wants to keep him, there is enough rationale to do so without appearing to condone fraud.
So then it will come down to "does Yale want to keep him for football reasons or not." Who knows? They let Siedlecki go when he actually won championships.
Has anyone suggested Bill Parcells yet?
Columbia now has a big recruiting advantage over Yale, Princeton and Dartmouth, as Columbia will have a new head coach in place in approximately the next two or three weeks whereas Williams, Surace and Teevens, if they are retained, will be on blistering hot seats for another year.
Transfers are governed by the NCAA rules, which state that a transfer student athlete must sit one year if they move to a school in the same division, but are not required to sit out a year if they transfer to a lower NCAA division member. Because the Ivy League is in the Football Championship Series (FCS and formerly 1AA), those that transfer from the Bowl Championship Series ( formerly Division 1) may play immediately. If any Columbia player were to transfer they would sit one year, and lose that year of eligibility, unless they transferred to a Division II or III school. This makes transfer to other Ivies or Patriot league schools very unlikely. If one has no life and wants to read the NCAA rules and regulations on transfers, go here http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D112.pdf and read Section 14.5. Be prepared to fall asleep during or immediately after reading this section.
It would serve CU well to develop a process that instills confidence in the selection of the next coach. Too many of the comments question whether the process can produce a change for the better...change yes, but better is at question. Bring in outside help and increase the confidence in the process.
Yeah, I'll write more about this later, but without WANTING to insult the key players in this selection committee... I have to say this is not good enough right now.
These are the same guys who have been making these decisions forever.
I also think someone from the outside, perhaps Kraft or perhaps someone else, needs to join this existing crew and fast.
Jake,
Kraft has next to no interest in the Columbia football program. His very generous (if not self-serving) donation in 2007 was the first and last time I've seen him have any involvement with the program.
Unfortunately, there's no chance that he's going to be the white knight who swoops in to anoint our next HC.
True, but Kraft may have someone in mind for the Columbia Head Coaching Position, and, if so, he obviously will inform the search committee. Same with all the other very knowledable Columbia football alums throughout the United States.
True, but Kraft may have someone in mind for the Columbia Head Coaching Position, and, if so, he obviously will inform the search committee. Same with all the other very knowledable Columbia football alums throughout the United States.
Whether or not Bob Kraft is involved in the selection process, there is a good chance that the next head football coach at Columbia will have a New England connection. There are at least several strong possibilites including Holy Cross head coach, Tom Gilmore, former Brown coach, Mark Whipple, who is now the Cleveland Browns'' quarterback coach, Williams Head Coach, Aaron Kelton, and Kevin Morris, the Head Football Coach at UMasss, should he be let go by the Minutemen.
The basketball search committee incorporated a few current players at some stage in the process if memory serves me correctly. As far as Coach Toal, we have a few of his former players on the team now (two seniors, I believe). Why doesn't somebody ask them how they think he would do?
Ask Brown for permission to talk to Estes. Who knows?
I also like the idea of talking to Estes' former mentor: Mark Whipple. Whipple has a great track record.
Does anybody know the facts regarding our A1? There is a raging debate on voyforums about whether our A1 would be an advantage or a disadvantage in recruiting a new coach. PS, Norries wrote a very warm and classy email to his mailing list after he was relieved. I really hope he gets a good assistant's position at a D1 school.
Ted Gregory was HM all-American DB at CU, a member of the all-Ivy 25th anniverary team, and is on CU's first century team. That's about as distinguished a football pedigree as Columbia has. He spent many years at Heidrick & Struggles in cororpate executive search. Now he runs the global sports search practice for another search firm. And yes that includes coach searches.
Part of CU's losing culture is the kind of caustic, hostile, here we go again attitude on display here. It often is accompanied by the best of intentions. But it is not productive. Everyone in the athletics dept is not an idiot. The guys selected for the selection committee are not incompetent. Bill Campbell is not blind or a crony-ist. Etc., etc. Let the people who know the job do the job. Focus on giving them the resources they need through your contributions. The get out of the way. Sniping from the sidelines, to the extent some guys are doing it, cannot help. If you have a coach you think is great, use your own contacts, network to him and convince him to apply for the job. Otherwise, let the committee do its work in peace with the candidates who are truly available to and interested in CU. And have confidence they will find the best one available.
A real isse is that the coaches were scheduled to go on the road for recruiting trips on Monday. Are the assistants going to do that and keep the process moving for handover to the new staff, as they did after Shoop? Or is everything shut down pending the new regime? Jake, any info?
Undoubtedly, the assistant coaches will be trying even harder to recruit players to Columbia. Obviously, any assistant coach who is a good recruiter is more likely to be retained than an assistant coach who is not a good recruiter. I assume that Ray Tellier is watching over the process.
I want to thank Jake for his commitment to Columbia sports and especially football. I am pretty sure he has taken and will have to continue to take a huge amount of heat over his change to openly speaking on the coaching situation. I have enjoyed his blog for the past 4 years and will continue to follow it after Chris has left the school. The school is lucky to have someone with this much passion supporting its programs.
Before coming to Columbia we visited many schools. We met and talked with several coaches of much bigger football programs during that process. When it comes to recruiting coaches the ones that impressed us the most were the OL/DL coaches at Michigan, the DL coach at Duke and the DC at Columbia. We met many head coaches, but, there were only a few that left us truly enthused and I feel were very unique which included Lloyd Carr, Pat Fitzgerald, Mark Dantonio and Norris Wilson. The list and Coach Wilson being part of it is intentional. He is one of those rare people that you get a connection from and instills energy into the process. That translates into recruits and you have to admit he has brought in some really talented players which is a major part of being a head coach especially at an Ivy / non-scholarship school. Based on the last 2 years alone it was pretty obvious what was going and needed to happen, but, the man does deserve some respect for what he has accomplished. I wish him the best and expect more from him in the future.
Dianne Murphy is another person that has done some really great things with this university. I looked at the school before she arrived and it is very apparent how athletics have progress since then. I personally think “search committees” are a mistake, but, from what I can see it appears to be the norm in the Ivys. Michigan AD definitely did not use a committee in his recent search. When it comes down to it though the final decision will be hers alone assuming the powers to be are fully supporting her. If you were looking at things 6 years ago I think she made a good choice back then. I also wish her the best.
One last point. Don’t trash the next coach if he keeps some of the current staff. It may happen and the new coach’s staff should get everyone’s full support. Support the team. Remember one of the great things about Columbia is the team never gives up. The Brown game is a great example of that. In the future regardless who is at the helm everyone should give their support to the team. The team is everything.
Karl Groth
I wouldn't worry too much about students transferring out because of a coach change. It just doesn't happen in the Ivys. This year’s recruits is a bigger issue, although, a quick choice can minimize that. It is happens for the most part at the D1 scholarship schools and then it is usually only a couple of players.
I agree with Leon L that our selection committee is outstanding. However, I would not follow Leon's suggestion to contact someone you think might be qualified in order for the purpose of getting him to apply for the job. That could be risky to do and embarrassing if your communication is misinterpreted. It seems to this Columbia football fan that A much better course of action is to e-mail your candidate's name to Dr. Murphy or Ray Tellier. Another option is to post the name with some background information of your candidate on this blog, as well as communicating with the committee members, or either Dr Murphy or Tellier.
Very well said, Karl!
Does anyone know who are the leading candidates at this time for the Columbia and Fordham head coaching jobs? Are the two schools looking at the same group of candidates?
How did Cornell find its current head coach? If no one knows the answer, it's worth looking into.
Mr. Groth,
I appreciate your post, but disagree with the last paragraph.Talking to my son, he said he never had a problem with NW on a personal level. It was his loss of control over his coaches.It is my understanding that the kids really have a problem with the DC and OC,the way they have treated the kids, practices etc., therefore I hope you are wrong about keeping those coaches. That is where the big problem lies. Except for the Brown game, , there were not many adjustments made at halftime. That is not the fault of the players, but those making the calls. So as much as I agree with much of what you said, I seriously think in the best interest of the team,a new staff should be picked by our new head coach.
Don't worry... there is NO chance they will keep the OC or the DC. Perhaps Ed Argast will stick around, (I pray he does), and I'd also love to see John Gutekunst remain, but Gutey is very close to Norries and I don't see it. Aaron Smith, the WR coach is also a great coach and deserves a look.
Certainly some of the position coaches may remain with the Columbia program. It all depends upon the new head coach.
Totally agree, those 3 guys would be OK with the team, especially Aaron S. and Gutey
To the "Mon Nov 21, 09:47:00 AM PST" poster you are taking the last part of my post in the wrong light. If I were to guess most if not all of the coaches will be new. That is just part of the transition. There are a couple which your player can enlighten you about that may stay. Regardless of who is there the last part of my post was an encouragement to support the new coach and staff fully and more to the point regardless of what happens support the team (the players). The team (the players) have never given up which a testament to every player current and past. The team is everything.
Karl Groth
There have been an interesting list of coach candidates floated in the past couple of weeks. There are several active assistant coaches at schools in turmoil (i.e. Penn State) that could be good candidates also.
My suggestion to Dr. Murphy is to keep completely quite on the process until after the next coach is hired. Feelers or news leaks just make a mess of things. Just ask Michigan fans about that when Bill Martin was the AD (Les Miles). This is another reason why I don’t like “search committees”. Too many opportunities for leaks.
If you can’t tell by my posts I am a big time UM fan (family season tickets since early 50s), but, it has been a blast attending Chris’s games. I really love the atmosphere at the games (good and bad) which in many ways is much more pleasant than the Big House. I even like the band. They definitely went too far before and after the Big Red game, but, they truly are part of the unique atmosphere at the games. Don’t change a thing about them. I thought they should get banned from the last game and also expected that to be reversed before the game. The point needed to be made.
Karl Groth
To Karl Groth, yes I do know the 2-3 coaches that you are speaking of.
Thanks.
Most BCS schools hire a consultant to help in the search process. A lot of times this also helps so that the school doesn't have to ask for permission to directly contact an in-place coach. Does anyone know if Columbia is going that route or if that's the role of the committee?
I could not disagree more with Leon's comments about the committee.
This committee is convening for at least the second time to do the same job they failed at doing previously. (I use the term "failed" only in the sense that Wilson has been terminated; a result no one wanted at the time he was hired. I believe he and his staff achieved some good things here.)
As best I can tell, no one on the committee is qualified to run a program or otherwise familiar with current best practices when it comes to running a football program.
There is no objective reason for believing that this committee, as currently constituted, will make a quality decision. That is not intended to impugn the integrity or character of the members. It is, in my opinion, a statement of the obvious.
More importantly, the committee itself should recognize that it has no particular expertise in assessing the components of a successful program or coach beyond his resume. This is why this committee should retain an expert on football programs to guide it in making this decision.
Saying the above is not to mean that the members do not have an important role to play in the process. Their knowledge of CU and the program is very valuable. But some of the very specifics needs of this program requires someone who understands the nuances of the various approaches and is capable of vetting what the members will hear in interviews.
Good intentions are not a substitute for common sense and an impeccable process.
Give me that, and my son and I will live with the rest.
Mr. Groth, thanks for your comments. 9:17, I was being a bit ironic in suggesting people contact coaches directly. I don't think any of us has the contacts to actually do that. As for retaining coaches, unless the new HC is promoted from within, expect a clean sweep with at most two position exceptions, especially without a consistent winning record. The coordinators will definitely change. That's where the new HC will put his stamp on the program from the get-go.
As for the committee, I gave Ted's credentials because he is a professional sports search guy. To do a search requires that he first assess the program or organization to determine the search criteria -- what the program's needs are and what kind of background, ability and personality would both fit best and have the greatest likelihood of accomplishing organizational goals under the circumstances extant. He's there to do exactly that.
As for the hiring of Wilson, it was a strong hire for CU at the time, which is the only way to critique a decision. Wilson was a highly successful coordinator from a successful BCS conference program, with Big Ten playing experience, who had turned down an HC position from a competitive program. He was right for what CU needed at the time. He was the opposite of Shoop in temperament and personality and a successful recruiter.
CU has needed to take two steps: first to become competitive, then to win games. Wilson helped us take the first, but couldn't quite take the second. He left a foundation that's stronger than it's been in recent memory. The next guy has to be able to maintain it, build on it and take the next step to win games. I'm fairly sure that's what the search team has in mind.
And to add a name to the pile, E.J. Mills of Amherst (though be may not be willing to leave). Two undefeated seasons in three years, 80-32 over 15 years as HC; high honors for many players; coach of the year awards; even sent a player from NESCAC to the Jets -- an offensive lineman, at that.
I'm sad to see Wilson go, but I trust the AD to have made the right decision. I'm confident they'll find a good replacement, and hopeful he will take the next step at CU. Wilson's work ensures that someone will be able to do it sooner rather than later.
Another name: Kevin Morris. UMass just released Morris as its head coach so he's on the market as well. I doubt that Columbia will pursue him, but if he applies for the head coach position at Columbia, the Lions might consider him to be an attractive candidate because of his head coaching experience and overall football background.
Leon,
The CU search train has left the station. From the information I am hearing, it is a carbon copy of the last model. You should feel comforted.
At some point, this program will find someone who embraces the simple concept that change requires doing something different.
Until then, we'll follow your lead and rationalize 1-9 as "competitive."
I went to the Brown game- it was great. I am still in shock that we made a coaching change after that game. Do we rally think there is some one who can do beter than Nw. take away this year, and he actually had a good run. I wish NW the best of luck. On another front, is tellier responsible for overseeing the program
6:42, the thing you don't seem to understand is that CU is one of the least attractive HC jobs in college football. Many of the names that have been mentioned are great, but they'r already in better positions that CU can offer. Until someone shows that CU can win consistently, the job will continue to be unattractive. That hasn't happened for 50 years.
Maybe lightning will strike. Maybe there's someone out there who has a proven background and wants the challenge, like when Bobby Ross went to Army. Of course, Army paid him three times what CU pays.
Until then, likely candidates are Div. 1 FBS/FCS coordinators and Div. 3 head coaches. That's reality, not by choice. But, then Priore came from a NESCAC HC job and he was considered a good candidate. Remember what he said when asked why he withdrew from the CU job? He said he still wanted to be able to coach when he's 50. Seems prescient now.
Despite all this, there are some new pieces in place that may have changed things sufficiently to make the job attractive enough for someone unusual to take a flier on it. I'll be pleasantly surprised but don't ask me to hold my breath.
Leon, please stop negotiating against yourself when it comes to Columbia.
You have no idea how many coaches, good coaches, are interested in this job. People want to coach here and have been making lots of calls and inquiries ever since the Penn game loss.
Toal wants to be here. Gilmore wants to be here. Lots of even bigger names want to be here.
I suspect you secretly hate New York City or think everyone else in America does.
Right on last poster!!!
Leon, have you seen the economy lately?
We're talking about a pretty great job at a great salary, (any salary these days is pretty good, but this is at least $200K), and it's probably good for at least three years with no success and a lot more even with moderate success.
There are millions of Americans and hundreds of coaches jumping for a job like this.
Hell, if I knew a cover 2 from a jock strap, I'd apply myself!
5:37, if that's true, I stand corrected. Gilmore would be great! Let's get him - unless we can do better still.
I love New York - I'm a native - and CU football since the Domres era. I think it's a great opportunity - just imagine the publicity for the guy who gets us several winning seasons in a row, not to mention that second title.
And the cupboard's well-stocked. Did you see the size of the freshmen backing up the O-line in Saturday's two-deep? Not a bad gift for a newcomer. Same with the Campbell building - although not comfortable with what moving the FB offices off-campus says symbolically about the place of football at CU.
By the way, the big perk for a coach is free tuition for his kids. Ray stayed, in part, to get his kids CU degrees. It adds up if you have 2 or 3 young ones.
If Gilmore, Whipple et al. want the job, then more power to us! (And I'm not negotiating with anyone. No one here is.)
Leon,
You fail to appreciate how hard it is for coaches to get a HC job anywhere. Even in the best of times, there are precious few available at any level from high school on up.
But there are certain structural impediments here that can scare coaches away.
One is the strength trainer. He is employed by the training staff and not the football department. That's a big deal when you consider (i) he spends more time with the team than any other coach, and (ii) this team has had an exceptionally high level of injuries. While it doesn't get much discussion, Wilson's greatest challenge this past year was injuries and it was an area of the program that was outside his control. CU needs a new trainer for the program, but the first thing a prospective hire will learn is someone else controls this decision.
I'm sure there are additional issues. But most importantly, I think those responsible for the program need to examine the entire program in an objective light. Scape goating coaches is getting us no where.
And I don't believe we need to be defensive about it or make it out to be a personal attack on those currently managing the program. I believe in the sincerity of those wanting to bring a winning program to CU. To do that, we need a comprehensive self examination.
$200k for a head coaches job in NYC?
How much do you think Murphy was paid to come to Boston? I bet it is significantly more than that.
There will always be coaches desperate for their first shot and we might get lucky and the next guy is truly special. But history sure seems to be repeating itself:
1. fire coach day after last game
2. put up job posting, hire search firm the next day.
3. narrow down applicant list to workable number.
4. interview candidates, call back top 3
5. make an offer
How well has that process worked the past 60 years?
If we were serious about being big time we would already have our coach identified and the deal finalized or close to it.
It's more like $250K plus a large apartment in NYC that's worth at least $75K in rent per year.
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