Wednesday, October 05, 2011

Scouting Sacred Heart

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Paul Gorham has made some good adjustments this year



Overview


We hear the words "class warfare" a lot lately.

There's a general notion being pushed on America that the rich must be rich because they cheated, or they stole, or are just plain not fair.

That stupid notion, (and it IS stupid, we've NEVER had more SELF-MADE millionaires in American history), is usually followed by a push for more taxes on the wealthy or some other thought on how to punish them for the evil of success.

What does this have to do with Columbia football?

Well, there may be some football players who know some Columbia students who will actually be going down to those "Occupy Wall Street" protests today... you know, the three-and-a-half-week-long demonstration that blames greedy Wall Street for all of our economic problems? That's the one.

***TIME OUT FOR A MEMO TO ANY COLUMBIA STUDENT PLANNING ON ATTENDING THE WALL STREET PROTESTS***

When your parents are paying or taking out a loan in their own name for you to go to an expensive school like Columbia-- which is the case for 90%+ of you -- it's ludicrous for you to be protesting about the economy... or almost anything else. You're not "protesting, you're having a "tantrum."

***TIME IN***

Anyway, the real message here is that in life and in football we shouldn't be looking to PUNISH the successful, we should be looking to EMULATE it!

And that's what Columbia should be hoping to do as it looks at Sacred Heart.

The Pioneers began the season 0-2 and looked totally inept on offense.

Sound familiar?

But since then, Sacred Heart has righted its ship mostly due to two solid games by its starting QB, one fantastic game by a RB, and some very opportunistic play by the defense.

In short, it's been a team effort.


Top Weapons

The QB I'm talking about is Tim Little, a red shirt sophomore from Egg Harbor Township, NJ.

SHU's turnaround can almost directly be attributed to the coaches' decision to give Little the starting job in week 2.

I say "almost directly" because he had a bit a rough beginning against Bryant in week two.

But against Dartmouth in Sacred Heart's first win, Little completed 65% of his passes.

And last week at Central Connecticut, he threw three TD passes and no interceptions.

Another big weapon is Keshaudas Spence, a bruising 5-10, 230 pound freshman back who burned the Big Green for 129 yards and two TD's. Even though Spence had a very rough game against CCSU the following week, you can bet the Pioneers will be using him early and often to test the sometimes shaky Lion tackling.

On defense, Sacred Heart has started to excel at the "bend but don't break" approach.

The most dangerous Pioneer is senior DL Justin Embler who has an impressive 10 tackles for a loss in just the four Sacred Heart games.

Linebacker Chris Mandas has 35 total tackles, seven of them for a loss.

WR's Rich Rossi and Greg Moore are the playmakers in the passing game.


Coach Profile

The man engineering this in-season turnaround at SHU is Head Coach Paul Gorham.

And while this is the first-ever meeting between the Lions and the Pioneers, this won't the first time Gorham has worked the opponent sideline at Wien Stadium.

From 1994 through 1998, Gorham was an assistant coach at Brown University. From '94 to '97 he was the offensive line coach and in 1998 he was the offensive coordinator.

Those were some wild years in the Bear-Lion rivalry.

There was the 1994 game a Wien, where the Lions blew a 27-10 THIRD QUARTER lead and lost by an incredible 59-27 score.

There was the 1996 game at Wien, where both schools went back and forth up and down the field before a pass deflection in the end zone sealed a 31-27 Columbia win.

And then was the 1998 game where Brown and Gorham came into New York with one of the most high-scoring offenses in Ivy League history and it turned out to be a defensive struggle. Brown won, 10-3 after Columbia failed to score on a 4th and goal with just seconds remaining.

Gorham is a protege of former Brown Head Coach Mark Whipple, who is now the QB's coach for the Cleveland Browns.

But for all of Gorham's talents, the biggest reason for SHU's two consecutive wins has been he fact that the opposing teams were sloppier when it came to penalties, (Dartmouth), and turnovers, (CCSU).

A discipline Columbia team can definitely win this game.


Columbia Game Notes

The CU game notes are now publised on the athletic department website.

I don't see any major changes in the two-deep, but if I missed something, please let me know.


Coach Kelton's Progress

Former Lion defensive coordinator Aaron Kelton continues to do great things as head coach up at D-III Williams College.

But now he's a curator of a local museum!

Well, for a while anyway.

After an undefeated season last year, Kelton and the Ephs are 1-1 so far in 2011.

42 Comments:

At Thu Oct 06, 02:48:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jake, as far as your frustration with the spoiled brats who are stampeding Wall Street, now you know how a lot of us felt in 1968, only more so. If trhe admionistration had called in the police on day 1 and thrown those brats out of school Columbia would not have suffered from a lost decade. It all goes back to the admissions department. Look behind the raw numbers/scores in choosing a class and weed out the Mark Rudds before they arrive on campus and announce that they want to blow it up. And PS, it is a shame that the gym in the park was never built!

 
At Thu Oct 06, 03:01:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I totally agree with the last poster's comments.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 03:12:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another day or two of these idiotic rallies will eliminate any chance President Obama has to be re-elected. The vast majority of Americans want nothing to do with unruly street protests brought on by an anti-business President. These protests will put Obama on the defensive thru election date.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 03:25:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I respectfully dissent. Jake, your grossly simplistic view of the world is the mirror image of the Wall Street protesters' grossly simplistic view of the world. For example, there is no such thing as a "self-made millionaire" in the US -- everyone depends on the government in some respect (currency, roads, bank deposit insurance, court enforcement of contracts, etc.) to do business. And almost none of today's tech businesses would exist had the government not made the initial investments in what became the Internet. Quite a bit of responsibility for the economic crisis lies at the feet of Wall Street, and of other businesses in the US -- as well as government and foolish consumers. No one gets a free pass in this one. But white-washing one part of the equation means you can't understand completely the causes. And if you can't understand the causes, you can't devise an effective solution. And that's where we are. Right wing business-is-always-right thinking and left wing business-is-never-right thinking are part of the problem right now. Admit some gray, some nuance and you have a chance to be part of the solution. Columbia grads should be too smart to be taken in by either side's cr*p.

Now, on to Columbia football! Let's hope the coaches have a nuanced view of the problem so they can come up with a solution!

 
At Thu Oct 06, 03:29:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And speaking of Obama, he seems to like his alma mater about as much as he likes Israel.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 03:39:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obama sold bunker busting bombs to Israel. That's not liking? What has he done to Columbia - other than hiring too many of the Harvard-Princeton usual suspects?

 
At Thu Oct 06, 03:58:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Jake's respectful dissenter: Are you putting us on or do you really believe that there are no "self-made millionaires" in the United States because of the existence of the United States Government? Are you saying that there can only be "self-made millionares" in an anarchy. That's of course, total nonsense. However, notwithstanding all your economic silliness, you are obviously a Columbia Football Fan, so I certainly respect you for that.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 03:59:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cameron Ross has broken into the two-deep at wide receiver.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 04:09:00 AM GMT+7, Blogger Jake said...

To the poster who dissented:

Please tell me you don't see any logic in kids whose parents are paying $60K plus per year "protesting" about the economy. I understand they have the 1st Amendment right to do so, but it's absolutely ridiculous and makes them and CU look stupid and childish.

Now you asked me for a solution.

I have one.

It's called WORKING. And it's called REWARDING those who work.

Right now, our govt spends a lot of time and a lot of my money rewarding people who don't work.

And still it's not enough.

As for the rest of your argument, you push forth the Elizabeth Warren line that "no one makes it on their own in this country," and thus, I guess we should tax the Hell out them to remind them of it.

Warren is a typical egghead Harvard idiot. God save us from them and please make sure they stay the Hell out of govt. It's bad enough as it is.

Of course no one made it on his or her own.

That's why the rich pay the most taxes of anyone else in this country. We don't have everyone paying the same aggregate amount. In fact, 47% of Americans pay no federal taxes at all.

The notion Warren promotes is asinine... she seems to forget that most of the cost for those roads and cops already has been paid for by the rich, WHETHER THEY USED THOSE SERVICES OR NOT... And yet, she and the govt. wants more... they always want more.

As far back as the Talmud, (and I studied Talmud as a Yeshiva boy and still do), our wisest people have known that the rich SHOULD pay more in AGGREGATE taxes, (and they sure do in America), but it is not moral to have anyone pay a higher PERCENTAGE than his or her neighbor. The Talmud also teaches that he who gets the most benefit from a govt service should pay the most for it... so I guess we are a truly merciful society for not making very poor people pay for Head Start, etc.

But let's talk about who helps us make it, shall we?

Don't we all have to thank our PARENTS for having us, because how could we not succeed without being conceived?

Chalk up 50% of my earnings to mom and dad.

But if I want to give them a cash gift, or buy them a house... guess what? I get another tax.

If I want to pay my wife and kids back for all the nights with them I missed, all the ballet recitals missed, all the times daddy had to work late, and give them a nice inheritance... Nope, govt. taxes 50% of it.

And so on and so on...

Warren is a collectivist. She pretends the rich are arguing for NO taxes, etc. which is not the argument. The argument is should the rich pay more of the taxes when 47% of the population is now paying NO federal taxes at all.

"Fair share" indeed.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 04:41:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Jake, instead of the Talmud, why don't you update yourself and take a look at the award-winning documentary, "Inside Job." If that doesn't open your eyes about Wall Street, nothing will.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 04:44:00 AM GMT+7, Blogger Jake said...

Yeah I saw "Inside Job"... Great movie. And no one is saying Wall Street didn't commit crimes. The problem is, Wall Street had an accomplice in the crimes, the govt. And having the govt regulate Wall Street more in response to these crimes is like asking Bonnie to arrest Clyde.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 04:48:00 AM GMT+7, Blogger Jake said...

... And you know why the Obama team spends all its time working on new regulations instead of arresting the actual criminals on Wall St? Because they're too busy asking them for campaign donations! Read Charlie Gasparino's "Bought and Paid For."

 
At Thu Oct 06, 05:06:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jake, really disappointed in this. I know this is a blog with the right to discuss whatever you want, but this should be about CU football, not the economy or politics. This is usually a great blog with perfect posts, but this is just disappointing.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 05:11:00 AM GMT+7, Blogger Jake said...

The actual body of the blog will always be only about Columbia football. But if readers want to talk about other things in the comment section, that's fine.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 05:51:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK, here goes. My son plays football at Columbia and I have a daughter in an equally expensive college. Neither receive any financial aid. I feel fortunate because they do not need financial aid, and I beleive that Columbia, and other schools, should make their admissions need blind so those less fortunate have the opprotunity to move upward. Having said that, by some logic the streets I drive on to work everyday make me a dependent of government. Unlike Immelt and GE paying no taxes, and being on Obama's jobs creation committee, my K1 show flows right to my personal tax return. What deductions do I have? Salaries for those that are employed by my firm. I am not complaing, but my "take home" is clearly taxed at a very high rate, not only because of the tax rate, but also becuase there is FICA and Medicare for the employees @7.65%. I would cry if I knew all the taxes my firm and partners pay. Yes, it is called hard work, and travel, and like Jake said, missing children's events. I am better off than my parents, but will my children be better off than me? Likely the first generation to say no. As angry as some of this drivel makes me, I could play a few downs Saturday. Now back to the game, let's go Lions!

 
At Thu Oct 06, 06:06:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jake's Blog, Jake's rules! Just think where we would be without it...

Jake, can you coach?

 
At Thu Oct 06, 06:16:00 AM GMT+7, Blogger Jake said...

Columbia and all the Ivy schools DO have need-blind admissions and have for many decades.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 06:29:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Before I read this blog today, I was under the impression that Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, LaBron James, Mark Sanchez, C.C. Sabbathia and so many others of my business and athletic heroes were self-made millionaires. But now I understand better thanks to the insight of the commentator who explained that their success in computers, finance and athletics is all due to the existence of the United States Government. I guess you could even apply the same logic to our 0-3 record this season--it's not anyone's fault, but the Feds.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 07:07:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nothing directly to do with Columbia Football, but it's great to know that our men's cross-country team is now ranked 18th in the nation and our superstar sub 4 minute miler, Kyle Merber, has returned for what promises to be an outstanding senior year following a freak running injury. Here's the link to the article on Merber.


Fohttp://www.armorytrack.com/News/Post/Kyle-Merber-Back-On-Courseotball

Go Lions!

 
At Thu Oct 06, 07:11:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's the correct link to the New York Armory track story on sub 4 miler, Kyle Merber:


http://www.armorytrack.com/News/Post/Kyle-Merber-Back-On-Course

 
At Thu Oct 06, 08:12:00 AM GMT+7, Blogger Bob L said...

As long as the Democrats and Republicans are at loggerheads and trying to make the opposition party look bad instead of trying to advance the interests of the nation, America will remain in deep trouble. We need a centrist third party that is not constrained by ideology and willing to look for pragmatic solutions for the nations problems. The government can be a positive in some situations and negative in others. Read about how a centrist third party can be formed and prosper in my new book which was released today. Resurrecting Democracy- A Citizens Call For a Centrist Third Party. It can be obtained from Amazon as an ebook or trade paperback.
Maybe if the Columbia coaches were more pragmatic in their approach to football, the team would do better.
Go Lions!

 
At Thu Oct 06, 08:29:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Mitch '68 said...

I'm very proud of my fellow CU alums for their contributions to this blog, and of course very grateful to the founder. I would like to make a comment on the posts in this thread from the perspective of football at Columbia.

I wish I had known Bob Kraft when he was a CU lightweight player but I was a few years after him. I got two varsity letters in lightweight football and would have gotten three but I actually dropped out of school for a year because I was so depressed about the football program. Football was my life, but CU football was cynically and ineptly run. On the freshman team all the players -- and some of them were great -- believed in tough football, but the coaches actually encouraged fouling opponents, which was absolutely the wrong thing to say to kids who wanted to feel proud of their team and their leaders. This and much more about their college experience made some players feel cynical, alienated, and very angry about CU. I really, really hope it's better now.

After a while the angry mood of some CU athletes found a target in the leftist students on campus -- their disruptive behavior, their appearance, and the perception that they were spoiled brats. To some extent this resentment was understandable, but it's disappointing to see it resurface a bit here. At CU I was a somewhat unique in having an identity as both a "jock" and a "puke." Both sides were closed minded about the other, but I have to say that the jocks (though not all) were more so. Again, for everyone's sake I hope things have changed, and I hope too that we who contribute here can avoid the distorted perception that "the other side" is (depending on your viewpoint) either a bunch of entitled brats or filthy rich robber barons. I know where that leads and where it led Columbia and we don't want to go there.

Finally, although this is a football blog I don't think it has to be narrowly so. I've very encouraged that the central topic can sometimes lead to a productive sharing of views in a larger frame. I wish that opportunity had always existed at CU.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 08:34:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, what a pleasant diversion.

EVERYONE is complicit in the meltdown. Bush and the Fed for making money too cheap after 911 as a narcotic to make the country feel better, consumers for doping up on mortgages they could not afford (and should have known better), wall street for packaging up junk and getting a greedy AIG Fin Products to guarantee these instruments....Universal banks for writing mortgages not because they made sense but because they could recycle the capital and increase their bonus pools Speaking of bonus pools, derivatives traders were paid up front for all expected profits from a trade and no claw backs if the trade went south (I know this from first hand experience).........and Obama for thinking we could spend our way out of a fiscal problem rather than letting companies fail and working on the economy first

NOONE is clean in this. I love my low tax rates and take advantage of the fact that I can structure certain things as capital gains and pay only 15% (Jake, to be fair, the average joe cannot do this so readily). Right blames left and left blames right. Neither fix the problem

I love America but it has become so spoiled and whiny. In 1997, when Asia melted down there were unthinkable acts of selflessness and nationalism. In South Korea, citizens melted down their gold and sold/lent it to the government to help liquidity crunch, people tightened their belts, families banded together to support one another rather than look to the government for handouts, and yes reforms made their way into how banks operated. Some Chairmen were sacked or put in jail, many government officials disappeared... During the crisis, they paused the internal bickering, took the tough medicine up front and acted. Today their industries are strong (Samsung pummeling Sony) and financial institutions more sound than Citi or Bank of America.

Can we Americans learn from this? You should see how media in Democratic nations in Asia and Australia cover the partisan bickering in the US...it's not flattering.

OK, got that out. Hope I am still allowed on this blog tomorrow


Chen 82

 
At Thu Oct 06, 09:36:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

While kids are having tantrums over the rich, can we have a moment of silence on the blog for one of the greatest inventors and entrepreneurs of all time? Steve Jobs. American icon and symbol of people that get rich most often because they bring great things to people.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 11:57:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To state the obvious: many millionaires have taken taxpayers' money, directly or indirectly.
The Net had government backing, the railroads and airlines have been, are subsidized, producing wealthy officers, and farmers have been, are paid not to raise crops; some are quite well off.
Tax breaks to oil companies, bailouts to banks have made many in the "private sector" wealthy.
If some of the protestors around the country come from comfortable families, so what! Not too much social or economic change, revolutions come from
the poor. (my tablet doesn't seem to allow jumping below this line so make it the last, please)

 
At Thu Oct 06, 05:44:00 PM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jake, you say blitz, blitz blitz against a not dangerous passing team, yet you show that in the last two games he completed 65% against Dartmouth and threw 3 TD passes against CCS. I havem't followed Sacred Heart closely, but it seems you believe they will pass often. Is this correct? Football only post :)

 
At Thu Oct 06, 07:23:00 PM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jake, I love your blog and share your passion for CU sports. As a moderate, I do not share your politics. I think that the cohort of CU enthusiasts that you have helped gather around your blog is a valuable asset to CU athletics. It would be a shame to fracture it. Please think about that.
-Dr.V

 
At Thu Oct 06, 08:23:00 PM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Since I may have started this set of comments with my first blog yesterday, I would like to indulge this community of Columbia football fans with one final thought. Nobody has a right or an entitlement to attend Columbia College. I regard it as a privilege. Without financial aid I would have not been able to attend. I have paid the College back over and over again for many, many years with my money and my undying support. It still sickens me to this day to see spoiled pampered brats bite the hand that feeds them. The reason why I admire our guys who put on the pads is that they are making a contribution to the life of the Cllege. They aren't pounding their spoons on their high chairs. So whatever the frustrations of the current season might be, let's remember that these fine young men deserve our whole-hearted support.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 08:33:00 PM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Salud! to the last poster!

 
At Thu Oct 06, 09:03:00 PM GMT+7, Blogger CULionsbacker said...

The weather tomorrow is supposed to be beautiful. A great day for a Lions victory. Too bad the game is at 12:30 on Yom Kippur which will keep attendance down. Should have been a night game (although I know the discussions about having night games).

 
At Thu Oct 06, 09:21:00 PM GMT+7, Blogger dabull said...

Doc V, you wouldn't abandon this board because of an occasional foray into the realm of political ideologies would you? If Jake's views were more in line with yours would there be any issue? Come on, that's a big problem in my view with this country that too many cannot tolerate even a bit of dissenting view on a topic. Just gotta keep going forth with your own personal views and moral compass is all I can say. Always enjoy seeing your comments as you are one who always attaches your name to a post.

 
At Thu Oct 06, 10:12:00 PM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just like Columbia College itself, Columbia Football undoubtedly has one of the most diversified group of supporters of any college in the United States. From what I've heard over the years, most of the major gifts to the football program have come from alumni who are Democrats, while most of the smaller donations come from Republicans or independants like myself. Anyway, despite our individual personal politics, the obvious fact is that we all share a passion for our beloved Columbia Football Lions or we not be on this board in the first place. Thanks, Jake, for everything you do for Columbia Football! As the rockers say, "We Love You Man!"

 
At Fri Oct 07, 12:16:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dabull, appreciate your points, but, actually, it wouldn't make any difference if Jake's views happened to be similar to mine.
-Dr.V

 
At Fri Oct 07, 01:21:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Focus. . .focus. . .we're losing focus. This blog provides an invaluable service to those of us who care about CU football. Simply stated, there is no other place on the face of the planet that provides any meaningful discussion of the program. While I acknowledge that these excursions into things political are infrequent, I would suggest they are unnecessary in that outlets for political commentary and discussion are abundant to the point of saturation. Let's stay on topic.

In that vein, this is a hugely important week for the program. A loss here has so many bad implications that I don't want to think about it. I'm hoping we have seen the bottom of the season and can get a win.

 
At Fri Oct 07, 02:12:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, the important week is NEXT WEEK when our West Coast AD, Bill Campbell is in town and he see's first hand this disaster!

- Disgruntled Lion CC '92

Ps. Go Mitt :0)

 
At Fri Oct 07, 02:54:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Played for Billy C. '75-'79. Mean streets for sure and despite the absence of CU support, loved every Sat. game day where you could go out and compete with my mates on D1 level. 35 years later and I can't believe I'm worried about the boys beating a program like Sacred Heart U. As far as the Wallstreet protesters, get off your ass and earn a living. I'm not going poor to make you happy.

 
At Fri Oct 07, 03:22:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bravo to the previous post-er. I too agree that it is embarrassing that we are hoping for a win against the likes of Sacred Heart. That's totally embarrassing! Tell your old coach to either come out of retirement, or find a more capable Head Coach.

 
At Fri Oct 07, 07:48:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Mitch '68 said...

I have huge admiration for Bill Campbell and all that he has accomplished. The profile of him in the College alumni mag a few years ago made those accomplishments very clear. And as an athlete he was fantastic. When I read here about how we need 300 pound linemen I can't help wondering why we're not looking for 170 pound linemen like Campbell -- not that we could ever find another one like that. It's also true that Campbell's head coaching record was 12-41-1 overall, 8-33-1 league. Wilson so far is 16-36 overall, 9-26 league.

 
At Fri Oct 07, 08:09:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I first considered this a trap game sitting on the schedule before Penn. Unfortunately, no so anymore.

 
At Fri Oct 07, 09:07:00 PM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not going to get into politics of the protest mentioned. I think Jake has a fundamental right to his opinion on the protests, a fundamental right to share that opinion in any form he wishes and to a degree he has a point. I also believe that if any student from any school regardless of who is paying should protest if that is what they truly believe in. If it embarrasses the school so be it. That right to protest and freedom to express ones thoughts is what makes this country great.

Karl Groth

 
At Sat Oct 08, 03:00:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ANON 6:09PM

I'm with you and it's not pretty. I think the SH game has come to the point where it appears to be the Lions only remaining shot at a W this year.

 
At Sat Oct 08, 03:33:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are no scholarships given to these young men that devote long and agonizing hours to Columbia's football team. They commit themself physically and mentally because they love football. I pray the coachingg staff revaluate their strategy and remember the devotion these young men have given of themself. WE WILL WIN WHEN THIS IS DONE and these athletes can enjoy the experience

 

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