Tuesday, December 04, 2007

Giving Credit

(CREDIT: Columbia University Athletics/Ben Shyman)

I'm back after a short trip to the Midwest and I'm in an adventurous mood. So, I'd like to ask my readers for their nominees for the "First Annual Readers Choice Columbia Football Awards":

1) Rookie of the Year

2) Offensive Player of the Year

3) Defensive Player of the Year

4) Special Teams Player of the Year

5) Most Improved Player

6) "Comeback"* Player of the Year

7) Team MVP

*= awarded to the player who returned to, or exceeded, the high level of play he achieved in a season previous to 2006.

Let me hear from you as we look to acknowledge our outstanding young players.


At Tue Dec 04, 09:26:00 PM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1. Gross 2. Knowlin

At Wed Dec 05, 12:44:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1) Rookie of the Year: Gross

2) Offensive Player of the Year: Knowlin

3) Defensive Player of the Year: Edwards

4) Special Teams Player of the Year: Knowlin

5) Most Improved Player: Savich

6) "Comeback"* Player of the Year: Hormann

7) Team MVP: Knowlin

At Wed Dec 05, 02:43:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good question.
1. Rookie - Gross. Easy one with multiple prior honors.
2. Offensive - unusual choice here with Partain. Has been steady presence on offensive live for yrs. Will be hard to replace (Knowlin later).
3. Defense - Mitchell. Ivy honorable mention, led Ivy in sacks till moved to NT. When moved to new position, did well to help plug line holes.
4. Special teams - Rocholl for punting.
5. Most Improved - Rangel. Came on strong this year.
6. Comeback - Aregbe. Did well after absence.
7. MVP - Knowlin. Generates real excitement and always chance for big play.

At Wed Dec 05, 04:29:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I actually thought in my own evaluation that the Williams kid was our best rookie even though he didn't crack the lineup until I think the Penn game. And even though Gross had an outstanding year, I think Otis is going to be a real impact player when he gets in there for good. Offensive player and MVP is no doubt about it Knowlin. Defensive player of year is Mitchell. I would be hard pressed to pick a special teams player. Most improved is Mitchell. Comeback player is Agregbe.

At Wed Dec 05, 05:04:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

rookie- guiterez knolin for everything else

At Wed Dec 05, 06:13:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1. Rookie - Gross. Look at the numbers. Gutierrez on the O side.
2. Offensive - Agree with Partain since he is a leader and and hard worker. Hormann and Davis to follow.
3. Defense - Mitchell, Shalbrack and Gross in a tie. Again, going with the numbers and big plays.
4. Special teams - Too hard to pick. Not much to go on this year. Would go with Edwards here.
5. Most Improved - Rangel as well. Good change up runner from Jordan Davis.
6. Comeback - Aregbe. Did well after absence. Would like Stoll to have a shot at this because of big upside. Gutierrez if you count HS.
7. MVP - Knowlin. Biggest numbers, most exposure. Hormann in second. Gross in third.

At Wed Dec 05, 06:15:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was poster 3:13:00. I forgot Quinn in tie for Defensive MVP. My bad. His numbers were as good as the others named. No disrespect intended.

At Wed Dec 05, 09:55:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What about players who would have had better years if not for injuries? Shalbrack, Quinn and Masorti were three defensive players who had off years due to injuries. On hte offensive side, the two TEs, Russell and Evangelist, were both nicked up. Finally, the cruelest blow of all was the off season ACL that Hormann endured. It really hampered his play this year.

At Wed Dec 05, 12:20:00 PM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It amazes me how many people on this blog sct like they are specialist on ACL tears.

At Wed Dec 05, 08:30:00 PM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's look forward for a moment. Last year we had 5 early admits at around this time. Where do we stand this year?

At Thu Dec 06, 12:34:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rookie: Gross
Offense: Knowlin
Defense: Shalbrack
Special Teams: Morine
Most Improved: Mitchell
MVP: Knowlin

At Thu Dec 06, 01:32:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1. Rookie: Gross. Otis and Gutierrez honorable mention
2. Offensive: Knowlin. The best WR in the league.
3. Defensive: Mitchell. He shored up the middle.
4. Special teams: Rocholl. Punting was great.
5. Most Improved: Rangel. He showed he can run inside and block.
6. Comeback: Aregbe. Great addition after a year off.
7. MVP: Knowlin. No brainer.

At Thu Dec 06, 02:07:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reviewed awards from last yr. Anyone know what these are to honor?

John Cirigliano ironman award
Special Forces award - sp teams?
Phil Fusco award

Rest seem self-explanatory.

Underclassmen honored last yr:

Offense - Knowlin (FR)
Freshman - Shalbrack (FR)
Special Forces - Weldon (JR)
Most Improved - Mitchell (SO)

At Thu Dec 06, 03:01:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Based on last year awards, think that Knowlin who won MVP Offense last year will get MVP.

Think it's more likely Mitchell gets MVP Defense rather than a 2nd most improved. See this going to a freshman or sophomore.

At Thu Dec 06, 03:17:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Defense: Shalbrack easily. Consider:

2 picks (leader), one for a tourhdown. Most fumble recoveries, third in tackles, most passes defended, and probably graded the highest per position of any defensive player.Hurt or not, he had the best year.

At Thu Dec 06, 03:41:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most valuable goes beyond numbers as they can be spun any way (how many tackles for loss vs how many tackles, how many sacks,vs. how many interceptions, ect, ect.). Who did we count on the most to make plays and did everything asked of him to the best of his ability? Who can we count on next year? Who had the biggest impact? This should be MVP.

At Thu Dec 06, 04:37:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Re: prior post
How are player grades assigned?
And how would we as fans know the grades to make our picks in this blog? Should this even be used?

At Thu Dec 06, 04:47:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would suspect that every play is evaluated/measured by what was done, what should have ben done and did a playerget done. This is Division AA football program. If players are not graded weekly on the tape breakdown, I would be surprised.

Play to play.

At Thu Dec 06, 05:13:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

No way for us fans to know how each player was graded. Maybe the coaches use this in deciding their awards, maybe it's only a part of their end of year assessment. Maybe it's only used during the year to point out what needs to be worked on for the upcoming week. For us fans to answer Jake's question, have to use more subjective criteria.

At Thu Dec 06, 06:31:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not sure comeback player of the year can go to Hormann as he played every game the previous year and hurt himself in the offseason. And with special teams, i hope they are taking a hard look at having Rochell just punt next year as he regressed bigtime this year as a kicker. A 40-50 pct fg pct is unexceptable at this level--especially kicking predominently on field turf

At Thu Dec 06, 10:27:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 5:30 AM: Early Decision letters go out around 12/15. Students won't know if they're admitted until then....


At Thu Dec 06, 10:52:00 PM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Two things. First, the staff said they have four recruits lined up. That seems to be in line with the five they had at this time last year. And, second, stats can be misleading. Shalbrack is certainly a top player, and he gets many picks. His rep, however, is for being pick-happy, taking risks for the big play that cost the team a number of big plays this year. The coaches have been working with him to improve his judgment on when to go for it. In light of that, the coaches' analysis of his play might be a bit less enthusiastic than ours. And there are probably other hidden issues as well, I'm sure, both positive and negative. Say, a receiver who blocks well down field but who doesn't get noticed or a D-lineman who forces the play to another tackler.

At Thu Dec 06, 11:21:00 PM GMT+7, Anonymous The Neckman said...

To the 7:52AM Poster, were you watching the same team and players that I was this season or last? "Pick happy"(what's that mean?)? "Big plays that cost the team" (that's crap)? "Improve his judgment"(what play did he sell out for the pick and get toasted?)? "hidden issues"? I watched this kid all year and you obviously have view unlike most of the fans of the team and the players and scouts. You sound as if you are trying to knock down his stock. In short, "Don't be hatin', be participatin'." (Quote: Vince Vaughn)

At Fri Dec 07, 02:49:00 AM GMT+7, Blogger dabull said...

Not taking a side one way or another but to clarify, to call a player pick happy means he likes to fall off and hide and then jump the passing lanes. Most often if a guy plays like this he hurts the defense more than his picks he ends up getting helps. You sacrifice way too much in run support playing like this and if your a db you usually give up alot of underneath stuff because you play too soft. Usually to call a guy pick happy means he doesn't want to do the dirty work down in and down out.

At Fri Dec 07, 02:59:00 AM GMT+7, Blogger Alex said...

I don't want to get on any Lion players, but honestly, maybe there is something to the pick happy phrase.

I'm not a football expert, just a fan, but even I know, that if you go for the pick, and your man catches the ball - how can you tackle him? Obviously you are in the wrong position to do that. And let's face it; we had some big plays go against us this year.

Even players pounding on the football in the receivers arms - they can't wrap up while they are doing that, can they?

I wonder if players felt the season slipping away, and decided to go for the big play, over just covering guys.

At Fri Dec 07, 03:31:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous The Neckman said...

I appreciate the input by daBull but I have to ask for specifics from Alex, if he/she is referring to a specific player, which in my mind is what 7:52 AM was doing based on the named individual's "rep".

If the definition of a player's attributes/skills/performance/"rep" is "usually to call a guy pick happy means he doesn't want to do the dirty work down in and down out," then I have a hard time understanding how a player who was tied for the team lead in solo tackles and third overall tackles on the team doesn't do the dirty work or is soft? You can't have it both ways. I would love to hear of specific examples and frequency if you want to single out a player as either being soft, "pick happy" or not doing his job. The generalizations don't cut it when you call someone out. Support your argument in order to debate it. IMO the comment by 7:52AM was a disguised hatchet job on a Lion Player full of negative generalizations and innuendo but no substance or fact.

At Fri Dec 07, 03:42:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Picks are also often the result of a lot of pressure on QB as well as
good reads by DB. Would be interesting if "hurries" were recorded (as some teams do).

At Fri Dec 07, 04:03:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with the last poster, hurries and line pressure are vital to the success of the linebackers and DBs. If the awards are to be issued on the basis of stats, then lets keep as many of the stats as can indicate when a good job is being done (coaches grading reports?)and recognize all of those involved in the team effort.

At Fri Dec 07, 04:42:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gross was easily the "Rookie of the Year" this season. I thought Shalbrack would progress a bit more this year from last year. Not saying he had a bad season though, just thought he would've stepped it up another notch.

I think a really underlooked freshman was Augie Williams. He didn't make the 2 deep to start the season and didn't start until I believe game 5 against Penn. He ended up finishing 5th in tackles and really only played in about half the games. He was also playing the weak side spur position so he had far fewer chances than a lot of guys. I'd like to see that kid at strong safety someday.

Overall, I think the freshman class as a whole played very well this season and I hope they can build on it for next season.

At Fri Dec 07, 05:22:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another way stats don't tell the whole story: fumble recoveries. What is harder to do, give a good hit to cause a fumble or falling on the loose ball? I'll argue that causing a fumble deserves more credit. I'm not sure "caused fumbles" shows up in stats however.

At Fri Dec 07, 05:44:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Something to consider:
LB is usually the position that leads in tackles on a team. What would seem to stand out more is if a tackle leader (or at the top) was a lineman - often times double-teamed, ect.
Look at Harvard's defensive stats:
Tackle Leader with 54 - LB, 2nd with 53 -LB, 3rd, 4th and 5th - defensive backs. 6th was DE with 40
Karl Menninger said "Attitude is more important than facts." I guess he feels that facts can be deceptive sometimes or not tell the whole story.

At Fri Dec 07, 06:32:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not sure "pick happy" deserves all this attention as until the last game of the season we had the best pass defense in the Ivies yet the worst run defense. Clearly we need to focus on stopping the run which ultimately relies upon a good defensive line to plug the middle and lb's that are quick enough to go sideline to sideline. The flipside is we need a power runner to sustain long drives and chew up the clock vs getting in a shootout and playing from behind which i think happened in every game except Iona.

At Fri Dec 07, 09:29:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stats can be very misleading. The only one that makes everyone happy is wins. One guy could make 70tackles and most of them are jumping on a guys back 5yds upfield. Another guy could make 50 tackles but most of them are sticking your face in a gap and taking on a runner within two yards of the line. Who's the real football player? So many picks are just bad overthrows or tips. Ints. can be one of the most overrated stats. Also there is a stat for causing fumbles. If you look at the defensive stats you will usually see a column with FF at the top for forced fumbles. Now, what if a guy creates alot of fumbles because he's always poking around for the ball but at the same time he misses alot of tackles because this causes bad tackling form? There is no stat for missed tackles but coaches see it. There is no stat to tell you if a guy is spilling his guts out to stop every play or he's getting only the plays that come his way. Only coaches can evaluate that. When you get a bunch of guys wanting to win real bad and they all just want to stop the ball then stats don't matter because the team will be a team.

At Fri Dec 07, 09:32:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous dabull said...

Previous post,6:29 was me dabull

At Fri Dec 07, 10:30:00 AM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Along that line - there is another important role no statistic for: plugging your hole so the runner has to change direction or slow down - disrupting a play so someone else can clean up. Coaches know. We fans just look at numbers.

At Fri Dec 07, 07:33:00 PM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How did pre-season hype compare to on the field performance from our first years? In some cases, we expected an impact which we didn't get. In other cases, i.e., Nico g., we expected an impact and got it.

At Fri Dec 07, 11:04:00 PM GMT+7, Anonymous The Neckman said...

We as spectators can speculate on who is the MVP, comback player, rookie, etc. all we want, but what it is coming down to is what the Coaches and Players think after reflecting on a long season. We will find that out on Sunday night for those who are attending.

I hope that someone will post the results of the wards dinner on the blog (Jake?). As for next year, I am looking forward to an improved and stronger and faster team. While there may be some uncertainty in positions, we can only go up in the standings and that is a good sign.

At Fri Dec 07, 11:47:00 PM GMT+7, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We all know it comes down to what the coaches think. I didn't know that what the players think has a role as well (re - 8:04 blog comment). Also, the purpose of this blog as I understand it, is to speculate. We can discuss how we as fans were struck by performances. May or may not line up with actual outcome.


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